Stick with me on this longer-than-usual post. It sums up many of the injustices the presumed innocent (who too often turn out to be falsely accused) face in the rape milieu.
Twenty-five years ago, the appellate court judge for whom I was working was sitting in oral argument on a case that posed the following question: whether the rules of evidence should be construed to admit evidence of rape trauma syndrome (in the form of a nurse's testimony that victims of rape will report the crime in ways different than victims other crimes, including delaying reporting rape for years). For no other crime was similar evidence admissible. The judge pointedly asked the prosecutor making the argument why rape differs from a case where a robber holds a gun to an innocent man's head and threatens to kill him. The answer was incoherent. Certain "studies" were mentioned in a sort of mumble, but the response was the legal equivalent of gobbledygook. The prosecutor's bottom line was that the judge would just have to take it as a leap of faith that the two situations are different. The judge didn't buy it, because that's not how good law is made. He saw through it as an attempt to politicize the rules of evidence.
Nothing has changed in the past quarter century. The rape milieu is replete with such nonsense, and there are constant attempts to foist counter-intuitive "rules" on us -- rules that aren't applicable to any other crime, that don't ring true, and that are wildly inconsistent with the experience of most people. These rules are invented solely to "prove" what can't otherwise be proved: that a rape supposedly occurred.
A comment on another post in this blog raised one such "rule" -- the old myth that women recant because they do not want to experience a "second rape" -- the supposed victim blaming trauma that sexual assault accusers are subjected to every step of the way in the judicial process. A corollary is that women simply don't report rape for precisely the same alleged fear.
No evidence that "second rape" is a significant problem, and the very term trivializes actual rape
There is, of course, no evidence that this alleged fear is widespread or that it is keeping significant numbers of women from pursuing rape claims. The very analogy to a second "rape" trivializes the brutality of rape, but that sort of inane hyperbole is consistent with the anti-intellectual habit of feminists and the sexual grievance industry of trivializing rape to arrive at the ends they desire. Example: they talk of "rape continuums" that includes "sexist" comments made by men and boys. They seem oblivious to the fact that equating such conduct with "rape" eviscerates that crime of its horror. Personally, I think they believe using a word like "continuum" makes them sound intelligent.
Proof that "second rape" is a myth: it doesn't stop false accusers from coming forward
But their "second rape" theory doesn't hold up. False rape accusers in great numbers have no hesitation accusing one, two, three or more innocent males of rape, despite the fact that they haven't been raped and will undergo the same "trauma" of a rape trial as an actual rape victim.
The reason women don't report rape: it didn't happen
The principal reason some women don't report rape even after they've told someone they've been raped is that they really know it wasn't rape or, at the very least, they aren't sure. Many women falsely claim they were rape because they are embarrassed when it becomes known they slept with a male they think their friends find undesirable; others are afraid their parents will find out; still others are afraid their boyfriends will find out. Rape is a handy excuse to -- presto -- transform a lovemaking session into a male crime to which the female didn't consent. Sometimes, the girl's friends or family insist she must press charges (that's what happened in the horrid Hofstra case -- the boyfriend urged her to press charges), occasionally to test if she really was raped. In assessing why a woman isn't pressing charges, one needs to assess her possible motives. Almost always, women who don't press charges have a motive to lie, but this is never discussed by the sexual grievance industry in connection with an alleged failure to report.
Some women don't report because they weren't sure it was really rape. Although secretly, they might not have wanted to have sex, they know that their outward manifestations of assent probably did not convey that point. And if they weren't sure it was "rape," how on earth is it fair to assume their "rapists" knew?
Women who recant subject selves to greater risk than women who proceed with the rape charges
Even more far-fetched is the notion that women recant to avoid a rape trial. Think about it: women who recant know that they, themselves, could be subjected to charges for filing a false rape report and that this could cause them to be jailed for months or even years. Example: the Kanin study noted that the women who recanted were advised that they would be charged if they proceeded to recant. They recanted nevertheless. So, are we to believe that women who recant would risk going through a trial in which they are not the accuser but the defendant, and that they would risk going to jail themselves, rather than be subjected to rape trial in which they are the accusers? Sorry, it's not plausible. Not even in the wacky, topsy-turvy rape milieu.
The "second rape" theory is a myth: rape accusers are afforded every advantage to help them convict alleged rapists
Finally, the entire "second rape" theory -- that the judicial process metaphorically rapes women -- is a lie. For no other serious crime is reporting as easy.
▲Sexual assault counselors, paid for in part with tuition and tax dollars of the presumed innocent male accused of rape, hold the accuser's hand every step of the way as they guide her through the process. No similar resources are afforded the presumed innocent (who, too often, turn out to be falsely accused). At best, they are afforded a notoriously overworked and almost always out-gunned, public defender who is furnished to provide the appearance, but not the reality, of a fair trial.
▲In case you haven't noticed, men and boys are routinely arrested for rape on the basis of the accuser's word alone, without even listening to the male's side of the story, and even if the accuser's story is far-fetched and can be disproved merely by checking out a video of the interaction. A female's accusation of rape alone constitutes "probable cause" for arrest to far too many law enforcement officers. When a female claims she was raped but a male denies it and claims she's committed the crime of making a false police report of rape, there are conflicting claims of criminality, yet on the basis of no other evidence the male alone is arrested and often subjected to humiliating medical procedures.
▲The mere allegation of rape by any female, without any other evidence and no matter how far-fetched, invites a man's name to be splashed all over the newspaper, TV, radio and Internet for the world to titillate at the details of his humiliation. Men and boys falsely accused of this vile crime have been beaten and killed and have killed themselves; they've been fired from their jobs and lost their businesses; they've lost their wives, their girlfriends and their long-time friends. Rarely do they ever come out of it whole, and for many, the ghost of a false rape claim trails them for the rest of their lives. Good luck to them landing a good job even twenty, thirty years after-the-fact. All that a prospective employer needs to do is Google the name of a man falsely accused to learn of the accusation -- and that is usually enough to kill any chance of landing that job because most employers can't risk even the remote chance that the claim was true. In contrast, the accuser retains lifelong anonymity, either by law (UK) or by agreement of news sources (U.S.).
▲Using polygraphs to test the credibility of rape claimants is verboten. Feminists and sexual assault advocates object to their use on women who allege rape. To be eligible for VAWA funds, states and territories must certify that they prohibit polygraph testing of victims. VAWA provides: "No law enforcement officer, prosecuting officer, or other government official shall ask or require an adult, youth, or child victim of an alleged sex offense ... to submit to a polygraph examination or other truth telling device." (And please note the use of the term "victim" -- VAWA has convicted the male accused of the crime even during the polygraph stage!) In contrast, using polygraphs on men accused of rape is routine, and often if men don't submit to them, even flimsy charges won't be dropped. Moreover, polygraphs are routinely used to insure that sex offenders (predominantly male) are adhering to the terms of their probation, and this is considered sound public policy. A refusal to take the polygraph will land the person refusing to submit to it in jail.
▲If a college woman accuses her male classmate of date rape and they were both drinking, he will be charged with rape and with underage drinking. In contrast, she won't be charged with rape, and -- get this -- under the rules many colleges have adopted, she can't even be charged with underage drinking. You see, the colleges don't want to dissuade women from coming forward. (There's no possibility of abuse here, is there? If a young couple is busted and they're about to be charged with underage drinking, all she needs to do is cry "rape" and throw her male "friend" under the bus so she won't be charged with underage drinking. Nice, don't you think?)
▲In a rape trial the woman is fully protected by rape shield laws that prohibit any admission of evidence regarding the woman's prior sexual history with persons other than the defendant; in contrast, in a trial of a false claim, the male would not enjoy any of the rape shield protections his false accuser enjoyed when he was on trial for rape. His entire sexual history is often "fair game."
▲VAWA pays the legal bills of alleged victims of sexual assault. VAWA pays none of the legal bills of men accused of rape, the presumed innocent -- even those who were falsely accused.
▲Unlike any other criminal charge, including murder, assault, even planning the World Trade Center attacks, a rape trial in federal court and in various states allows evidence of the defendant's commission of prior offenses (specifically, his prior offenses of sexual assault) to show that he has a propensity for committing the crime at issue. Under this rule, which is unique in all of American jurisprudence and widely condemned by legal scholars, the jury is to be informed of the defendant's prior acts whether or not the defendant takes the stand. Even accusations of prior sexual offenses that occurred years before -- and even crimes for which the defendant was acquitted -- are admissible if the alleged act is proven by just a preponderance of the evidence (far lower than beyond a reasonable doubt). This is sometimes all a jury needs to convict the man or boy of the crime at issue.
But it's rape accusers, not the presumed innocent, who are being "raped" by the system, right? And I have a bridge in Jersey to sell the deluded souls who buy into this.
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57 comments:
Bravo, Archivist!
Good post. The only thing I'll disagree with is the principle reason why women don't report rape. The large majority of women who are actually raped are unable to come out and claim so, it usually takes quite awhile to be persuaded to do so because it is such a traumatic event for them.
It's pretty easy to tell if a woman is lying or not. If she is screaming from the heavens and accusing people the day after it happened or soon after, 9.9 out of 10 times it's fabricated.
Anonymous at 8:55: the delayed reaction to report an alleged rape is typically far more complicated than a woman debating whether she should report a terrible crime perpetrated on her. Studies now tell us that women suffer far greater regret following one-night-stands (and make no mistake, ground zero in this area is one-night stands with alcohol). Often these feelings of regret are redirected as anger toward the male, and she convinces herself that he "used" her for his personal gratification (and perhaps he did). The woman often shares with her social circle that she didn't want to have sex (and subjectively, perhaps she didn't), and from there, she is easily convinced that she was "raped."
But please notice that what I've described is not necessarily rape, and, in fact, it rarely is. Absent from the discussion is evidence of the woman's outward manifestations of assent. Her willingness to escalate the passion level with her more sexually aroused partner is the key.
If we want to curb these situations from occurring, we'd start teaching our daughters and our sons that women experience far greater regret after one-night-stands. This is a recipe for trouble. But please note that a woman's belated, ex post facto, after-the-fact regret, which she translates into being "used" and into being "raped" are typically not rape.
Moreover, her delay in reporting might be due to other non-rape reasons as well (rumors circulating that she had sex with a guy who's less than desirable), etc.
I also disagree that it's easy to tell if a woman is lying about rape. Post after post after post on this site shows incredibly effective rape liars.
Anonymous said...
Good post. The only thing I'll disagree with is the principle reason why women don't report rape. The large majority of women who are actually raped are unable to come out and claim so, it usually takes quite awhile to be persuaded to do so because it is such a traumatic event for them.
..................................
No one knows 'why' - there is no records keeping or empirical studies done on the topic, so it's just pure speculation on everyone's part.
They say assumptions are wrong 80% of the time.
* My daughter didn't come forward immediately because she didn't want her underaged drinking to be found out.
I was a strict parent, and she knew I wouldn't allow her to associate with her 'friends' if I knew about it. For a kid that age, friends mean everything to them.
She finally broke down and told us after the guy started vandalizing our home.
* My neighbor's daughter recanted her rape accusation and suffered a great deal of scorn and derision - the family eventually sold their home and moved because of it.
She 'recanted' her accusation after one of the boy's Aunt, a police officer, discovered she was buying dope from the accused. Her father was an Army officer and didn't want the scandal.
* This young woman's grades began slipping - if she failed, she would have to repay a six figure school debt-so she decided her bad grades were the fault of someone else:
(http://www.falserape.net/case_tossed_out_ronen_segal.html)
According to testimony at a July 15 evidentiary hearing, Segal drove the freshman, then 18, to his apartment last August and offered her wine. She drank roughly six glasses. Segal led her to the bedroom where they had sex. The woman said her drunkenness caused her to float in and out of consciousness. She later told her boyfriend about it and had sex with him the same night. She reported the incident to investigators Jan. 29 after her grades and military performance slipped, which she attributed to the assault.
* A woman I once worked came in late with a major hang over, laughing about what a wild time she had at a party the night before - she'd passed out drunk on the floor.
As the day wore on, she stopped laughing about it so much as she began to vaguely recall someone making out with her as she was passed out.
By the end of the day she was in tears. She had no idea who it was or when it happened, but she thought she had been raped in her sleep.
It was a big party with lots of unknown people coming and going. She had no idea who to accuse.
* A women I knew told the story of meeting a rough biker type guy in a bar. He took her to his mother's house, placed a shot gun across his bedroom door and didn't allow her to leave for several days.
She told the story like it was cool and adventurous the first few years I knew her.
As time wore on, she began to take on a victim role in the story, and ended up telling it with tears and 'trauma'.
I'm not sure if someone 'enlightened' her, or if the look of revulsion on the faces of people she told this story to convinced her it wasn't 'cool'.
There are just too many variables to presume one thing or another and no empiric studies done to definitively say what the major reason is.
Well, we DO know that typically women experience the regret I've discussed in my comment, which is too often transmogrified into rape. And we DO know that women lie about rape for as many reasons as people lie about anything else. But the most common reason is to cover up an illicit, unexpected sexual encounter.
Very well written and very well put, Archivist!
"the male alone is arrested and often subjected to humiliating medical procedures."
I would be interested in reading more about these medical procedures.
Also, imho, your article misses two important points:
Firstly, the belief in "second rape" is largely anachronistic. There was a time when accusers were "put on trial".
Secondly, the belief in "second rape" is a justification for rape being "unreported" that doesn't "blame the victim".
Anon at 1:27:
(1) The area is replete with anachronisms that won't die. The two percent canard is also anachronistic, having been thoroughly debunked (one law review article traced it to its source and proved it is not evidence of anything) but it is still repeated. So is the "second rape" nonsense.
(2) I don't think I missed your second point. Somewhere in that post I mentioned victim blaming. The alleged victim blaming is the supposed "second rape." (And I am literally chuckling as I type that, it is so absurd.) I wonder how we should account for NON-victims, the false rape accusers, who insist they were raped, and thus invite victim blaming on their non-victim selves?
What is so terribly, terribly ironic about this alleged fear of victim blaming, is that innocent men and boys are routinely tried and convicted in the court of last resort, the court of public opinion, on the basis of nothing more than an accusation of a lone female (and even a far-fetched accusation at that) -- but nobody outside of a few of us gives a damn about THAT kind of victim blaming.
Good post. The only thing I'll disagree with is the principle reason why women don't report rape. The large majority of women who are actually raped are unable to come out and claim so, it usually takes quite awhile to be persuaded to do so because it is such a traumatic event for them.
FUCKING
BULLSHIT
If there were a SHRED of truth in that, men accused of rape (such as me) would instantly plead guilty to avoid the traumatic event of a trial.
AfOR
FUCKING
BULLSHIT
If there were a SHRED of truth in that, men accused of rape (such as me) would instantly plead guilty to avoid the traumatic event of a trial.
First of all, grow up. Not only is your response juvenile but it also shows a lack of reading comprehension that furthers your ignorance. Your logic is also pretty inane. Men plea bargain and admit at least a form of guilt when really innocent bc of fear of trial.
The traumatic experience isnt the thought of a trial. The traumatic experience is being genuinely raped. It completely breaks down most women's minds to the point where they will refuse to let it be brought out or accuse the perpetrator. I've had the experience of knowing quite a few women who were genuinely raped and also quite a few instances of friends or acquaintances being accused falsely.
The women who were actually raped will beg and plead not to make it public, not to tell anyone, not to do something about the perpetrator.
The women who are lying will shout to the heavens for attention and will have claims brought on quickly, either the next day or week.
The point was if a women is shouting from the heavens she was a victim only a few short days after the alleged incident, if you bet the house against her your percentage of wins would make you the talk of Vegas.
"The women who were actually raped will beg and plead not to make it public, not to tell anyone, not to do something about the perpetrator.
"The women who are lying will shout to the heavens for attention and will have claims brought on quickly, either the next day or week."
Wait, wait, wait. I am very careful on this site to make the point that we respect rape victims and think that by trying to reduce FRAs, we are doing actual rape victims a service as well. What you are saying is contrary to what I know about rape victims, and I've studied this issue. If what you were saying were factual, we should be able to have experts testify at rape trial that women who accuse immediately are lying and who don't aren't lying, and I just don't believe we can make that generalization.
Archivist - "If what you were saying were factual, we should be able to have experts testify at rape trial that women who accuse immediately are lying and who don't aren't lying, and I just don't believe we can make that generalization."
I believe that what the poster was saying about victims who ”will beg and plead not to make it public, not to tell anyone, not to do something about the perpetrator.”, likely holds true for some number of women who are raped but don’t want to report it. Similarly, it is known that many underage victims of sexual assaults (boy, in particular) do not want anyone to find out about it (somewhat different in that this is often due to the control the victimizer holds over them).
While I do believe that this is true of certain women who have actually been raped, it seems just as likely that there are some women, who as SgtMom described, come to view past sexual experiences as rapes, and begin to report them as such to friends (and, perhaps family). While such women may be quite emphatic that they were raped – leading sympathetic listeners to believe that they were, the underlying fact that they know that they consented at the time would likely make them unwilling to make any sort of official claim to authorities. I’d imagine that the sympathy they can gain from others means far, far more to them than some “revenge justice” against a former lover.
And, what of women who scream it to the heavens immediately? Perhaps there are some FRA’s who do just that. But, then again, a woman who has been brutally raped may be so angry that she easily overcomes and sense of shame, and thus would be just as likely to be screaming it to the heavens.
One thing that I believe that can be seen in those FRA instances where it is done as a CYA measure, is that they seem to “blurt” it out, without much thought, and with out any intention of it getting beyond the immediate audience who they are trying to fool. I think of Danmell Ndonye, surprised by her boyfriend after her group-sex encounter, or that girl who got caught sneaking back into her home after sneaking out to have sex. I doubt either of them where shouting it out. They just resorted to what they believed would be an effect tactic (based on the observable facts that women ARE believed, the mere mention of rape causes an extremely visceral response (especially from men), and that they had likely never heard of any women getting into any trouble for doing so).
If only there were some reliable means to sort them out based on their demeanor alone.
Anon @ 3.28
You're talking out of your ass.
The women who were actually raped will beg and plead not to make it public, not to tell anyone, not to do something about the perpetrator.
Speaking as someone falsely accused of rape, I am FUCKED if I can imagine how being actually physically raped is AS BAD, much less WORSE.
Worst case scenario is I get hurt physically, or get an STD.
Let me think for a minute, what would I prefer, having the crap kicked out of me and a dose of clap, or spending the rest of my life in a cell, detested by the entire planet, bereft of all my family, friends and posessions?
Let me think for a minute, what is worse, the PUBLIC atmosphere in a court room, or the secret atmosphere in the cells, in the interrogation?
Let me think for a minute, what is worse, some prosecuting attorney in a court, or interrogating police who only look for evidence that suits them, with no-one to say "objection"
The traumatic experience isnt the thought of a trial. The traumatic experience is being genuinely raped.
Speak for yourself, cunt between your legs, trying to conceal the fact you are female, and your only agenda is to spout your feminist bullshit.
I'd rather be butt-fucked every night for a month by everyone in block C than lose my family and life and rot in prison for a crime I did not commit.
AfOR
Slewner said
One thing that I believe that can be seen in those FRA instances where it is done as a CYA measure, is that they seem to “blurt” it out,
I read it somewhere, cop I think, who said "be very suspicious of any claim that solves more problems than it creates for the claimant."
AfOR
". . . the underlying fact that they know that they consented at the time would likely make them unwilling to make any sort of official claim to authorities."
I am not sure where that puts FRAs. They, too, know they weren't raped, yet they are willing to make an official claim. Brazen, cold-hearted, calculating, they are willing to be victim-blamed and "second raped" all day long to service their lie. It is well to remember that it is their choice; they are free moral agents. Even at Hofstra, the boyfriend didn't force her to lie. As proof of her freedom to tell the truth, one need only point to her subsequent recantation.
And I'd mention in passing that a fair number of FRAs don't lie immediately. A fair number of them wait, even for weeks or months and sometimes years.
It is impossible to chart any trends from all this, but it is fair to say that women can and do lie about rape at any time for all sorts of reasons, with varying degrees of effectiveness.
Archivist - "I am not sure where that puts FRAs. They, too, know they weren't raped, yet they are willing to make an official claim."
I was seeking to address that subset of women, who, long after the fact, take to telling others that they were raped (deliberately (mis)placing themselves into the raped, but never reported category).
While their friends whole-heartedly believe their story, and try to persuade them to do so, the ones who remain unwilling to report likely tell their friends that they either fear some supposed "second rape" or that it's not worth the bother; while, in reality (as I surmise), the actual reason is that they know, in their heart-of-hearts, that they were never really raped in the first place.
I suppose I was not very clear in stating that I was focusing so narrowly in one small possible sub-set of those claiming to have been raped, but refusing to report (much later).
Oops!
Meant to also mention that, as an example, I was basing this on someone like the example given by SgtMom of the woman who hooked up with a biker, and whose story changed from "exciting sex" to "rape" over time.
Good one, slwerner. Right on!
The only reason girls dont lie about rape every time their feelings get hurt, or they break up with their boyfriends...is because there needs to be at least some kind of basic legal system that demands the truth.
"But, then again, a woman who has been brutally raped may be so angry that she easily overcomes and sense of shame, and thus would be just as likely to be screaming it to the heavens."
Wrong, that isn't how it works! Anger is not an initial reaction for a brutally raped victim. Releasing the emotion of anger could take months, even years.
The women who were actually raped will beg and plead not to make it public, not to tell anyone, not to do something about the perpetrator.
Sounds like it was rough consentual sex to me.
"Wrong, that isn't how it works! Anger is not an initial reaction for a brutally raped victim. Releasing the emotion of anger could take months, even years."
Everyone reacts differently to traumatic events, and a rape victim might react the same as a convenience store clerk who is beaten in the face by a gun-toting robber. There might be initial agitation and rage, maybe disorientation, or perhaps stunned silence. The fact is, there is no standard reaction, and if there were, we'd be able to navigate some of these false claims better. There are general assumptions that have proven to be true. For example, someone waiting five years to report needs to be looked upon with even greater suspicion than normal. Young women who cry rape and claim they were dragged into a wooded area by a "scary" black man is more often telling a lie (that's a fact).
Anyway, the point of the post was that the process for coming forward can scarcely be better for anyone looking to cry rape, both real and imagined, and regardless of their reaction.
Example: the Kanin study noted that the women who recanted were advised that they would be charged if they proceeded to recant. They recanted nevertheless.
They recanted because they knew the threat of prosecution was hollow.
Men plea bargain and admit at least a form of guilt when really innocent because of fear of trial.
Actually i think it would more likely be the fear of conviction rather than trial that causes then to plea bargain.
@Anon 5:54:00 -
Good to see you have absolute proof of how people behave in stressful situations. Wish i could be so certain.
The only thing I want to mention is that the idea that the FRAs dissprove the "second rape" concept. Don't get me wrong, I don't buy into second rape. But the point the feminists tend to make is that being questioned by defenders and police forces the woman to relive the experience creating a second rape.
Without the first rape their would be no second as their would be nothing to relive.
Great post though.
Once a girl calls rape she feels she has to hold her story.What happenend to me is people showed up at my place .Most under age I should of made them leave but I knew them most all my life except 2 girl from out of state.They had boyfriends so thought nothing of it.I felt I drank too mich so went to the backroom and passed out.I woke up with someone on top of me and there was a sex act happening.As soon as I became awware i pushed her off and stood up fell and hit a glass window seen star.This girl alone with another girl she knew call rape stories were almost the same but in total different places with other guys. She Emailed her teacher that called her baby sweete honey. This girl must of enjoyed this but as soon as teacher said she had to report it the girl was mad and said no way and she wanted nothing to do with it.The teacher Emailed her sister asking what she knew of the rape.sister Emails back "I went in the room to see what was going on and she ws all over him,he was drunk out of his mind and I tried to stop it and she came out of the room and said shut the ffffup..If I would of been all over her I would be doing 5to10 years.I now am facing a felon and she is facing nothing.
You CANNOT leave such good and important pieces like this buried among the numerous specific stories that you post up - because they get lost in the haystack.
Harry
Dear Anonymous,Thank you for your comment. I do not know where and how to let this be known .These girls decided to make up a story that I would like to shar some of with you.The one girl said I pulled her down the hallway 2 times tried to rape her ripped her pants and choked her. Then her sister came in and he threw her to the floor and choked her. When they asked if they told anyone they said no because they did not want to leave the party. At the end of the night 5 people were left and one car with 2 bucket seats and one bench seat in the back. She said she asked her sister if she could go with them as it was 20 miles out of town and sister said no we have no room for you.and said she stayed there because they had no room. I was passed out but she came up with 2 stories about what took place next.
Enabling girls false rape accusations is a recent perversion of a misguided law enforcement.
EKC, thanx for parts of yer story. I was also falsely a cussed of a rape that simply never happened, and found this site to be therapeutic.
Scott, I hired a lawyer that was young but his father was well known and we felt ok for the first 9 months.Closer to trial the plea was a c felon and 18 month in jail. We felt we had a strong case so paid $20,0000 for a better lawyer. He got hurt the first month and was on painkillers. We would drive 200 miles to meet and 2 out of 7 meeting he could not walk or talk because he would say he was on new painkiller.He would say we are going to win this and 4 days before trial he wanted me to plea. Her never returned calls emails or letters. What a nightmare. He took my all my money and never called a wittness.He cancelled more meeting then we meet.I meet only 4 times.This is ust a small part of what the Da lied to the judge about.
Harry would you be able to guide me where to post my story? I am thankful for this site.The False Rape Society.WHAT CAN WE DO TO GET THIS MORE PUBLIC?
You're talking out of your ass.
Speaking as someone falsely accused of rape, I am FUCKED if I can imagine how being actually physically raped is AS BAD, much less WORSE.
Worst case scenario is I get hurt physically, or get an STD.
Speak for yourself, cunt between your legs, trying to conceal the fact you are female, and your only agenda is to spout your feminist bullshit.
I'd rather be butt-fucked every night for a month by everyone in block C than lose my family and life and rot in prison for a crime I did not commit.
Your continued ignorance and idiocy does this site and the men's movement in general a disservice. You do not have a shred of common sense or any ability to critically think at all. It's pretty sad and your ridiculous rants of stupidity will only hurt the validity of the site instead of offering anything positive.
False accuser's don't necessarily blurt it out immediately.
My son's false accuser waited two years to accuse. The police report literally said she 'disclosed' the rape during a tantrum when she wasn't allowed to attend a party.
I think most women know they must report as soon as possible for DNA and a rape examination.
Aquaintance rape is a completely different dynamic than stranger rape.
Great post. I mean, it's shocking and crushing, but great to put it all out there.
Anyone who is at all reasonable recognises that 'rape trauma syndrome' and rape shield laws are bullshit. I had no idea that it is forbidden to use polygraph tests on the accuser; what possible reason could this have except for making it much more likely to result in a guilty verdict? All of these (barely) legal constructions exist for one reason and one alone: to punish as many men as possible, guilty or not.
Snark, you are on precisely the right path. Rape has become bigger than the actual crime; it's become a symbol, the principal sacrament in the church of female victimization. To appease the noisy radical feminist left, which dominates the public discourse on all things rape, and aided by the paid sexual grievance industry, we have altered numerous laws and policies to make it much, much easier to convict rapists. The trouble is, we have made it much, much easier to arrest innocent men and boys in the process, and their victimization is ignored because to acknowledge it would interfere with the appeasement process.
Anonymous said...
Your continued ignorance and idiocy does this site and the men's movement in general a disservice. You do not have a shred of common sense or any ability to critically think at all. It's pretty sad and your ridiculous rants of stupidity will only hurt the validity of the site instead of offering anything positive.
Nov 19, 2009 12:28:00 AM
Please, patience. He is where lots of falsely accused persons are. He is venting his frustration(s) the same as many of us have. Every person falsely accused of a serious crime reacts differently. He NEEDS our support and our knowlege and wisdom. We, IMHO, need to be also empowering him to fight what he is accused of.
AFOR: I'd rather be butt-fucked every night for a month by everyone in block C than lose my family and life and rot in prison for a crime I did not commit.
....................................
Deal is, AFOR, you will get ALL the above for the price of a wrongful conviction.
It isn't "either/or".
The "STD" you miight get in prison is AIDS - not something to be taken lightly.
................................
In 1988, Mr. Ochoa, then a naive 22-year-old, confessed to a brutal rape and murder he didn't commit, and accused an innocent friend, Richard Danziger, of the same crime to avoid the death penalty
Richard Danziger, who always maintained his innocence, suffered brain damage when another inmate repeatedly kicked him in the head with steel-toed boots. He now lives under his sister's guardianship in Florida, his multimillion-dollar settlements providing medical care and personal assistance. "
www.dallasnews.com/.../0224danzigerwalk.jpg
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Wow so this web site is basically just a gathering ground for disgusting misogynists...? Are you guys serious? I have never heard the term that a trial for a rape victim is a "second rape," no, actually the reason why women are traumatized in the court room is because of people like you that tell her she's lying, or a slut, or was drunk, or really wanted to have sex...I mean, if she's even lucky enough to take the case to court...because of people like you, women feel shamed, alone and confused to report sexual assault, and if they are lucky enough to even take the case to court, it is thrown out OR if convicted the rapist serves little to no jail time...It is sad for anyone that's ever been falsely accused of rape, the same for people that are falsely accused of murder, assault, robbery, etc...but creating this web site as an outlet to bash women on sexual assault is only hurting and putting shame on the ONE IN SEVEN women worldwide that ARE raped.
If you "men" have any decency or respect towards women you will be supportive, empathetic and educated on the subject - for example, College Campus rapes happen nationwide every 21 hours - so boys, when you are in a group of your female friends, make no mistake that it's very probable 1/3 have been or will be sexually assaulted at some point in her life...Not even to mention the horrors that women face in other parts of the world - i.e in Pakistan, statically a woman is raped every two hours...It's disgusting how in some parts of the world women and very young girls are trafficked, pimped out and brutally raped; essentially treated as objects.
So, instead of bashing and shaming women of this world for a crime they experience that is very very REAL, how about we all give each other mutual support and respect?
Tell you what anon,
I'll extend the same courtesy toward rape victims that you just showed toward those who are falsely accused. I'm not even going to touch on the lies you post as statistics, which have been throughly debunked time and time again. You've had a little too much of the indoctrination Kool-aid.
Thanks for stopping by.
So, instead of bashing and shaming women of this world for a crime they experience that is very very REAL, how about we all give each other mutual support and respect?.......
You post that at the end of bashing and shaming men???? How many children are abused by women... a very very REAL experience for which you will see no outcry.
I believe someone on here has posted that the site has respect for genuine victims. If any of my female relatives and friends were attacked i would be livid. Similarly, would you not be livid if someone falsely accused a male relative of yours of being a rapist?
So will you denounce all feminist DV sites for slandering men when decent men have become very very REAL victims?
Take the gender out of this.....it's about right and wrong. It's wrong to rape and it's wrong to falsely accuse. If rape is the most horrible thing to befall someone, what must it be like to carry the burden of a wrongful accusation. If being falsely accused is not serious then rape itself cannot be serious. If you want convictions without evidence, then allow men to accuse women of being witches to a simlar burden of proof, the word of a man being enough.
Right and wrong lady, not men and women.
So, instead of bashing and shaming women of this world for a crime they experience that is very very REAL, how about we all give each other mutual support and respect?
Sure. I'll give you respect as soon as you stop lying about the true prevalence of rape.
ANON: So, instead of bashing and shaming women of this world for a crime they experience that is very very REAL, how about we all give each other mutual support and respect?
....................................
True victims of rape, and true victims of false rape accusations are BOTH victims of injustice - especially since BOTH genders are victims of rape, and BOTH genders are victims of false rape accusations.
As a woman on this thread, I have requested mutual support and respect for ALL victims - since it is, after all, not about gender, but about justice..
As a woman victimized by a false accusation, I am asking YOU to undo the damage you've caused by demonstrating the first good example of mutual support and respect by a rape victim toward the falsely accused- - -
"Wow so this web site is basically just a gathering ground for disgusting misogynists...?"
What are you, a Freshman or a Sophomore Women's Studies major? You know absolutely nothing about this site, and how dare you come on here with your hatred.
"Are you guys serious?"
Yes. And so are the women who are here.
"I have never heard the term that a trial for a rape victim is a 'second rape,' . . . "
Then you don't know the area.
". . . no, actually the reason why women are traumatized in the court room is because of people like you that tell her she's lying, or a slut, or was drunk, or really wanted to have sex..."
You are talking to wrong blog. We don't do that.
"I mean, if she's even lucky enough to take the case to court...because of people like you, women feel shamed, alone and confused to report sexual assault . . . ."
The only ones we shame are the liars.
". . . and if they are lucky enough to even take the case to court, it is thrown out OR if convicted the rapist serves little to no jail time..."
Thank you, Prof. Dershowitz. We bow to your legal expertise.
"It is sad for anyone that's ever been falsely accused of rape . . . ."
Really? Because you've just insulted a bunch of them who read this blog.
". . . the same for people that are falsely accused of murder, assault, robbery, etc..."
There are a hell of a lot more of them accused of rape. But of course you would know that because you are the authority.
". . . but creating this web site as an outlet to bash women on sexual assault. . .."
You can't read, can you?
". . . is only hurting and putting shame on the ONE IN SEVEN women worldwide that ARE raped."
Oh, now you are the World Almanac. I can't recall when I've conversed with anyone so well-informed.
"If you 'men' have any decency or respect towards women you will be supportive, empathetic and educated on the subject - for example, College Campus rapes happen nationwide every 21 hours - so boys, when you are in a group of your female friends, make no mistake that it's very probable 1/3 have been or will be sexually assaulted at some point in her life..."
One out of three. Wow. That's some underreporting, isn't it!
"So, instead of bashing and shaming women of this world for a crime they experience that is very very REAL, how about we all give each other mutual support and respect?"
Do you have the first idea what this blog does? You miserable excuse for a human being. How dare you denigrate the victimization of the wrongly accused.
But thank you for showing us the true face of feminism -- the face that treats an entire class of victims as a myth. Your kind gives us motivation to proceed.
I don't normally do this, but couldn't resist.
Awesome post Pierce! :)
I really hope she tries to reply, especially if it's an apology.
"Men plea bargain and admit at least a form of guilt when really innocent bc of fear of trial."
what kind of mumbo-jumbo is that? What is a 'form of guilt'?
I suspect it's more the sentence they fear than the trial.
You sound like a real dumbo.
Saying the rape victim is raped a second time at a trial is as dumb as saying an assault victim is reassaulted during a trail.
"Men plea bargain and admit at least a form of guilt when really innocent bc of fear of trial."
what kind of mumbo-jumbo is that? What is a 'form of guilt'?
I suspect it's more the sentence they fear than the trial.
You sound like a real dumbo.
God, the stupidity of some of you is really unfathomable at times. The best is when your ignorance leads you to try to insult somebody else. If you take time to actually just read a few things on this site, you don't even have to search elsewhere so it will be easier for your limited mind, you will find instances of these unfortunate situations. Men will break down and take some sort of plea which involves taking a lesser charge or various other choices which will admit some sort of wrong doing on their part, even though innocent. They will not fully fight for their complete innocence bc the culture of assuming their guilt is so prevalent that they fear facing the full trial and forgoing the plea bargain might lead to a good chance they'll be convicted anyway.
As far as your silly point of them fearing the conviction and not the trial and assuming you made some clever quip, where does the conviction come from? Oh from the trial where they have to sit in fear as they watch their life crumble, see how the law is rigged against them where they might not be able to even present evidence while anything goes against them and be at the mercy of a society that assumes their guilt, waiting to see if true justice can even be done. Yea, the trial and conviction are part of the same process genius.
It's sad that some of you here are so limited and ignorant. Pierce does a great job here with a uphill battle but he has a segment here that drags this site down with stupidity.
Some of you on this blog make it sad to see just how limited and ignorant
Gender feminists insist women and men are equal, when it benefits women. They insist men and women are different (when it benefits women)
Anonymous said...
"Men plea bargain and admit at least a form of guilt when really innocent bc of fear of trial."
what kind of mumbo-jumbo is that? What is a 'form of guilt'?
I suspect it's more the sentence they fear than the trial.
You sound like a real dumbo.
God, the stupidity of some of you is really unfathomable at times. The best is when your ignorance leads you to try to insult somebody else. If you take time to actually just read a few things on this site, you don't even have to search elsewhere so it will be easier for your limited mind, you will find instances of these unfortunate situations. Men will break down and take some sort of plea which involves taking a lesser charge or various other choices which will admit some sort of wrong doing on their part, even though innocent. They will not fully fight for their complete innocence bc the culture of assuming their guilt is so prevalent that they fear facing the full trial and forgoing the plea bargain might lead to a good chance they'll be convicted anyway.
As far as your silly point of them fearing the conviction and not the trial and assuming you made some clever quip, where does the conviction come from? Oh from the trial where they have to sit in fear as they watch their life crumble, see how the law is rigged against them where they might not be able to even present evidence while anything goes against them and be at the mercy of a society that assumes their guilt, waiting to see if true justice can even be done. Yea, the trial and conviction are part of the same process genius.
It's sad that some of you here are so limited and ignorant. Pierce does a great job here with a uphill battle but he has a segment here that drags this site down with stupidity.
Some of you on this blog make it sad to see just how limited and ignorant
Nov 20, 2009 10:31:00 AM
Thank you Anonymous! Well put.
"Men will break down and take some sort of plea which involves taking a lesser charge or various other choices which will admit some sort of wrong doing on their part, even though innocent. "
Apparently, you don't understand that a plea bargain is not always (or even usually) an admission of any kind of guilt - it is simply used by a defendant whow would rather spend two years in jail on a lesser false charge, then ten years for a worse false charge.
Perhaps you need to watch news or read the paper more often. Or if you are able, a book. Though in your case, I'd suggest warming up with "Winnie the Pooh Goes to Court"
"As far as your silly point of them fearing the conviction and not the trial and assuming you made some clever quip, where does the conviction come from? Oh from the trial ..."
So you mean, the worry itself is more fearsome than the actual consequences? You aren't by any chance a psychotherapist, are you?
Well put Norm.
Apparently, you don't understand that a plea bargain is not always (or even usually) an admission of any kind of guilt - it is simply used by a defendant whow would rather spend two years in jail on a lesser false charge, then ten years for a worse false charge.
Perhaps you need to watch news or read the paper more often. Or if you are able, a book. Though in your case, I'd suggest warming up with "Winnie the Pooh Goes to Court"
You continue to show just how completely worthless you are. Your retorts are so desperate and poorly thought out that it's astonishing that one can be so dumb, but yet you try to insult the intelligence of others. Quite amusing. So according to your asinine logic, it's ok that an innocent man plea bargains and gets 2 years in jail rather than 10. Because in his heart he knows he's innocent and his plea will not be seen by others as some form of admission of guilt. Wow. Nobody who spends any amount of time on this subject can possibly be THAT dumb.
The main point of my post before was that it is wrong that society has come to a point that some men have been forced to plea bargain while innocent bc of the way the courts are stacked against them since they are accused of rape. Your only response is " Well uh, plea bargaining is good bc the innocent man will only be in uh jail for uh 2 years. Uh that's a good thing bc uh he knows he's really innocent anyway duh". You're an idiot.
Just look at the newest post Pierce has put up about a man who was found not guilty but has to still flee the country and create a new identity bc of the stigma. And your idiot logic is plea bargaining isn't and admission of guilt in the eyes of others? I'm done with you, you're just too pathetic and you drag down anyone who fights against FRA's.
So you mean, the worry itself is more fearsome than the actual consequences? You aren't by any chance a psychotherapist, are you?
This is just more idiocy, failed logic, the inability to attain any kind of reading comprehension and another failed attempt to try back track and retort after being shown how truly pathetic you are. Your posts seem to indicate that you're actually on the other side of this issue. Sad.
@ Anon 10:11
Sorry mate, but you're being a bit of an idiot on this one. Not because what you're saying is wrong but because you're putting words in Norms mouth.
He never said "plea bargains are good!" but rather better than the alternative which would be conviction. As for his opinions on the sad state of the system, well how about you ask him? Instead of assuming that his rather "matter of fact" statements equals his consent of the process.
Also, fear of conviction would probably be greater than fear of trial. However that does not mean there is no fear of trial.
The childish mud slinging is what will drag this blog into disrepute so can we please just knock it off.
Cheers.
@Veldang,
Thanks.
I'm so tired of argueing with that person - can't pretend I'm a broken record any longer - that I'm glad someone else stepped in:)
Oh well...onward to more recent posts, where hopefully the troll won't go...
Sorry mate, but you're being a bit of an idiot on this one. Not because what you're saying is wrong but because you're putting words in Norms mouth.
Also, fear of conviction would probably be greater than fear of trial. However that does not mean there is no fear of trial.
Ha, this place really is unbelievable. I"M being an idiot bc I'm putting words in Norm's mouth. Now that's a good one. His whole basis for his antics was putting words in my mouth, claiming I meant that somehow a trial and conviction are two completely different unattached events. I explicitly explained the contrary. Seems you misunderstood also, which is understandable. The difference is you were civil, Norm on the other hand chose to act up and be cute when in fact he simply had a reading comprehension problem.
The childish mud slinging is what will drag this blog into disrepute so can we please just knock it off.
Cheers.
You are absolutely right. Except it seems for a small percentage on here that anything but blind ignorance equals "trolling". That's a sad commentary.
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