A University of Vermont fraternity has been suspended over a "survey" that asked members who they would like to rape. I assume the survey was sick humor, a crude satire of the fratboy culture, and perhaps an imprudent poke at a PC campus culture run amok. Whatever it was intended to be, ultimately it is indefensible. We have long held the view on this blog that trivializing the word "rape" is no laughing matter, whether it's a joke about the rape of male prisoners, or the fantasy "rape" of women, or a false rape claim intended to get a guy in, or a woman out of, trouble. The word "rape" should be treated as sacred, and used only when it truly occurs. Even though it is unfathomable that this "survey" will cause a single rape, the community of the wrongly accused, of all groups, should appreciate the terrible potential for harm when the word is misused, and should make no exceptions allowing its misuse.
Besides, reverse the genders and imagine if a sorority's "survey" asked, "Which guys would you like to kick in the testicles/beat up/shoot in the leg," and that would also be indefensible, too.
There most certainly will be an outcry in the feminist blogosphere over this isolated incident, and it will be cited as proof positive to support the myth that ours is a "rape culture." A "rape culture," of course, not only would tolerate but would condone such a puerile survey. Our society does neither. The only "rape" jokes our society condones concern the rape of male prisoners, and that's because society actually encourages prison rape and looks the other way when it occurs-- it's a sort of "added bonus" punishment for any hapless male who lands in prison. (It is ironic that actual prison rape does not garner the outrage that this this sick fratboy humor is generating. Go figure.)
So, if there is an outcry over this, why not over other things, too?
Where was the outcry when a young mother made two false rape claims in ten months that put innocent men at risk because "she likes being the center of attention"?
Where was the outcry when a trial judge coerced a jury into finding a man guilty of rape in a close case?
Where was the outcry when it was reported that the military is charging more and more people with bogus sexual assault cases for the improper purpose of showing it is taking such claims seriously?
Where was the outcry when a licensed psychologist who oversees a team of clinicians in a California prison faked her own brutal rape -- in order to persuade her husband to move?
Where was the outcry when a gipsy camp was burned down in retaliation for a false rape claim?
Where was the outcry when police said that a woman who had previously made other false claims falsely accused a man of rape (and she's still enrolled at the school)?
Where is the outcry when a male student alleged he was expelled for doing exactly what his partner -- who was not expelled -- did: engage in drunken sex?
Where was the outcry over allegations of impropriety about Denison University's handling of sexual assault cases against two male students?
Where was the outcry over a serious proposal at Cornell University that would have done away with a variety of protections for the accused in sex cases, including the University Hearing Board, and would have allowed secret adjudications of the accused's case?
Answer: there was no outcry over any of these -- all of which were reported on this blog in just the past two weeks. Each of these is, arguably, far more serious, and more deserving of an outcry, than the childish rape survey, which has been widely condemned.
We, at FRS, condemn the rape survey. It would be nice if the shrill voices who dominate the public discourse about rape--and who like nothing better than to partake of gender passion plays when the victim is the right gender--wouldn't be so selective about its condemnation of outrages.
Wednesday, December 14, 2011
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23 comments:
Maybe one should find out if this survey is even real?? Or is it a manufactured hysteria story?? maybe Like find the guys who supposedly wrote this survey, and ask them if they did, or is this a manufactured lie to inflame the public.
If i doesn't sound realistic, maybe its not!!
Hillary clinton was seen talking to the guys that put up the sign "Iron my shirt" during her New Hampshire campaign for president.
Rumor has it she knew the guys were going to "Inflame the public", with that sign, and there was even speculation she planted the sign.
Folks should do some research into this University of Vermont ???Rape Survey??? because quite frankly "IT SMELLS FISHY"!!
I condemn it too.
Unfortunately, I'd say this is part of the "backlash".
If you'll recall that one fraternity not too long ago chanting, "No means Yes, and yes means anal".
These young men are not rapists, they are aware that the attitude towards feminist-defined rape is a complete joke - hence, rape itself is starting to be treated as a joke as well.
And that is unfortunate, but that is what the over-zealous prosecutors and rape hysteria advocates have sparked in our society.
I just hope that the clowns that made this mess will have justice dispensed on them.
Obviously we live in a False Rape Culture.
I'm with ScareCrow, except that I'm not stupid enough to condemn anyone for a natural reaction to misandry. We should be celebrating young men who stand up against misandry. We should be celebrating the frat that said "no means yes" and we should be celebrating the frat that created this survey, if it's a real story.
I'm with BAD.
In fact, I'll go further:
I do not condemn this action,
in fact, I wish I'd thought of it.
It is a brilliant and very appropriate response to the way young men are being treated by college campuses.
When the answer to "who would you like to treat like a rapist" is "all college men", I think that asking them who they'd like to rape is more than fair.
Anon 11:15,
You could even say we live in a False Rape Society. :)
There will be more outrage over the survey than this: http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2011/12/outrage-girls-rape-lie-causes-one-man.html
By the way, I read the reaction of Bad and others as a natural backlash (as ScareCrow said) against the unconscionable PC culture of misandry on campus. I happen to disagree with those who suggest this was acceptable, but their remarks should not be construed as evidence that we live in a "rape culture." Like Steve, I read their comments more as an affirmation that we live in a false rape culture--a culture that more and more men are finding intolerable.
I, on the other hand, doubt that these young men have the first clue about misandry, feminism, or how colleges run roughshod over the rights of young men. I am always amazed when we hear from falsely accused people who "had not idea this goes on." My guess is they were just being being "funny." I would, frankly, love to find out I am wrong, and that not only would they never call for a woman to be actually raped, but that this was a protest against the pendulum swinging too far. In that case, I am still not sure I could find it acceptable but it would initiate an entirely different dialogue.
OT:
They are at it again:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/health/nearly-1-in-5-women-in-us-survey-report-sexual-assault.html?_r=2&hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1323950612-NGtVPowVcNXZXTfqmQpyKA
"We have long held the view on this blog that trivializing the word "rape" is no laughing matter, whether it's a joke about the rape of male prisoners, or the fantasy "rape" of women, or a false rape claim intended to get a guy in, or a woman out of, trouble."
No one has trivialized the word "rape" more than modern feminists. Which demonstrates their intent is to exploit "rape", not prevent rape.
"I, on the other hand, doubt that these young men have the first clue about misandry, feminism, or how colleges run roughshod over the rights of young men."
While I doubt they know nearly as much as the regular readers of this highly informative blog, "rape crisis" feminism is quite visible on college campuses. There are Take Back The Night marches, and flyers posted in the dining hall. Many schools even have mandatory seminars for male students.
@Archivist - actually, I think many young men are becoming aware of it...
I wish I could provide you the link, but there is a blog run by a female college professor - she teaches an entry level class.
She started talking about "sex-crimes", and one male-student said out loud, "here comes the male-bashing". I'd say that many young men are in fact hearing the horror stories from people like myself and others, and realizing that UNIVERSITIES are the PRIMARY SOURCE of MALE-HATRED.
As for "bad" and the other - I completely understand your outrage - however, fighting fire with fire is not a good idea. Fire should be fought with water.
And, I do not appreciate being called stupid. Is it possible that this is not a "natural" reaction, but an "overly hostile" reaction?
Folks you are commenting about this University of Vermont survey AS IF IT WERE REAL.
Is it as real as a girl scratching a backwards B in her face and saying black guys voting for Obama did it???
Why doesn't someone find out if it was real, or did some Gender-raunch queen at the university of Vermont make the list herself; and tell folks "She found it on the steps of the fraternity".
If it sounds to bizarre to be true, maybe its not!!! It smells fishy to me.
Ive learned that when dealing with bizarre accusations from gender-Raunch, "If it smells Fishy, it usually is".
This rape survey at the University of Vermont very well be another false accusation.
Someone should contact the reporter of this ???rape survey???, and ask some questions to see if there is any evidence that this is a real survey, or was it just some gender-Raunch university queen that found this survey on a set of stairs or something??
Its not above gender-Raunch to plant a rape survey somewhere, and then blame it on a fraternity. If you think it would be too bizzare to plant a fake rape survey, you are kidding yer self.
I knew Strauss khan didn't rape that fat beast, When it seemed the world was just reacting to the accusation.
Imagine the opposite:
A sorority doing a survey:
"Which jock would you like to kick in the balls"
Or
"Which guy is most deserving of having his balls or dick cut off"
Would they be suspended? Would it be a scandal?
Probably not.
Now "who would you like to rape". Yes, in bad taste. But what is the problem. Sexual fantasy. If women have sexual fantasies, it is liberation.
I expect that most of the guys are able to separate fantasy from acting out illegal fantasies.
They might even date a girl and then consensually act out a rape fantasy.
After all, these are thought crimes. It only is so bad because of female rape hysteria.
Anyone wants to protect a man, if another guy says he will bash his face? Not as a fantasy, but as a threat?
Sexual fantasies should be free.
If it is clear that nobody wants to realize them in non-consensual ways. After all these are college students, not a street gang!
So, an extreme over-reaction .... No more freedom of thought, of writing, ....
HS, you raise interesting points. It is interesting how most everyone has just assumed the guy or guys who put the survey together MUST have a desire to actually rape women, because it's assumed that's how guys in fraternities think. The reality is that guys in fraternities are far more likely to spend their time "walking a mile in her shoes" -- http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2011/03/college-men-strut-in-high-heels-to.html -- true to their chivalrous selves, than planning out their next rape.
Yes, guilty. I assumed that it was an actual survey that said EXACTLY "which one would you like to rape".
Given the hysteria these days, its possible the form simply said "which one would you like to f***", or even, "have sex with".
The over-zealous rape culture simply reported it as saying, "which one would you like to rape".
The news does have a knack for twisting facts like that...
Better link with a little more info:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/15/us/vermont-rape-survey/index.html
Considering this culture of misandry we live in in which every man is treated like a rapist(or possible one)I think this survey made sense,If you are going to treat men like animals,We might as well act like one.
From the cnn report.
It added that "any behavior that demeans women is not tolerated by the fraternity."
But of course, you can demean men. Why are women so sensitive you cannot demean them?
Human-Stupidity is always in favor of female empowerment. Of females strong enough to face and survive deameaning jokes, cat calls, elevator eyes, objectifying gaze, invitations in elevators etc. Without being scarred for life. Just strong and tolerant as men.
Somehow feminists have managed to blur the border between thoughts and actions.
Which man would you like to castrate? Which man would you like to beat up or flog? These are all legitimate fantasy questions. Just nobody gets upset about it.
If it is clear fantasy and not a call to lynching. Or to raping.
Feminists managed to create thought crimes, by confounding thoughts and actions.
And yes, in fantasy there is a difference between who you would want to make love with and who you would like to rape.
The prick teasing bitch, that leads men on, that demeans and ridicules men, this one one would fantasize to rape. Exactly the one that is upset about the questionnaire.
The equally drop dead cute, sexy, inaccessible but totally friendly, nice and understanding girl one would not want to rape as easily. Probably the girl that would not get upset about the questionnaire and rather see it as a little fantasy play of boys that are boys.
So the girl one would like to rape is not necessarily the same girl one would like to consensually make love with.
And once more, among civilized intelligent people, one expects that they don't follow through with rape fantasies, just as they would not follow through with beating, shooting, flogging fantasies. Or MOST women would not follow through with dick slicing fantasies.
It was definitely a real survey. I go to UVM and there was a big investigation and the whole campus got a ton of emails about the process. The Sigma Phi Epsilon fraternity has been disbanded here.
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